Quantcast
Channel: Mage Knight Board Game | Official Rules FAQ Thread | BoardGameGeek
Viewing all 576 articles
Browse latest View live
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

Here're my thoughts:

The Skill reads, "If you use no die from the SOURCE this turn, it gives +3 instead." Two questions come up: (1) Is this sentence—by using the singular form of the word "dice"—referring solely to the single free die all players get to use from the SOURCE every turn, or is it referring to all of the dice in the SOURCE? and (2) What does "use" mean: to directly use a mana die as "mana", or to make any use whatsoever of any mana die?

The argument based on the singular form of the word "dice" to argue that this Skill refers only to the free mana die every player gets each turn seems tenuous at best. (If that's what was intended, why not have simply written "If you don't use your free mana die from the SOURCE this turn, it gives +3 instead.") That being said, regarding the second question, I would take a stricter interpretation of the word "use": I would disallow the basic effect of Mana Draw, but allow the strong effect. I would allow both effects of Mana Storm, but of course prohibit the player from using the "three extra dice" allowed by the strong effect.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Sidious_

When you use Mana draw (Take a mana die from the source ...) or Mana Pull (Take two mana dice from the source...) you actually using those dice to gain mana, not just manipulate them.
I do not see the different between:
- gain a red mana token from a red die (use the source)
or
- gain two red mana tokens from a die what just turned from green to red (use the source with Mana draw)
↧
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by spartax

The skill is pretty clear, at least in the English version. If you use no die from the source this turn, it gives +3 instead."No die" means "no die." You must not use any dice from the source, acquired by any means.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

Mana Storm strong effect says: Reroll all dice in the Source. You can use three extra dice from the Source, and you can use dice showing black or gold as mana of any basic color, regardless of the Round.

Surely you would be permitted to play this effect and reroll the dice in the Source so long as you didn't use the three extra dice?

And what if a hypothetical effect gave you one mana token matching each die in the Source, surely this isn't "using dice from the Source".

And consider the strong effect of Mana Pull: Take a mana die from the source and set it to any color except gold. Gain two mana tokens of that color. Do not reroll this die when you return it to the Source.

The first sentence isn't "using" a mana die: Yes, it does say "take", but you're only changing the face of the die and then later putting it back--you never use it as mana. The second sentence is merely using the die passively as in the hypothetical case I stated before it: the second sentence is merely giving you two mana tokens--and those are what you're using.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by flogae

You guys are pretty much replicating the discussion we've had in our group and there are good and valid arguments on either side, which is why I put the question here.
It is not so much a question of how to interprete the written words in the rules, but rather I'd like to know what has been intended by the rule and then maybe the wording wasn't so well picked to capture that. Unfortunately the Official FAQ doesn't touch on the problem, even though it does clarify one point on "Who needs magic?".
So I really think that should be narrowd down a bit further. Maybe the Designer or someone close to him can help...
↧
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

flogae wrote:

So I really think that should be narrowd down a bit further. Maybe the Designer or someone close to him can help...

Unfortunately that boat has long since sailed: the designer, by all accounts, hasn't answered questions about MKBG in some years. (And I don't blame him: as I understand it he wasn't involved in the development of the last two expansions, so he would likely not wish to give answers that could lead to additional unanticipated problems.)

Which, IMO, still leaves us in an okay position: as I've stated elsewhere, we players of MKBG have plenty of hours of experience with this game to answer these types of questions, if we can come to a consensus.

And, the fact that this question really hasn't arisen in discussion often, suggests it's a rarely arising situation. There seems to be agreement that Who Needs Magic is referring to all of the dice in the Source. The only question now is whether you can do things with/to those dice that doesn't constitute "use". And this probably doesn't have a definitive answer: so choose the answer that seems the best fit from your opinion and go with that. (I've already stated above what I think it should be, and why.)

Now there's an interesting question as to why WizKids and company, in the recent while, haven't been providing a lot of answers either, especially with regard to the five new cards that came out with the Ultimate Edition. My suspicious is that, they too, see the expert answers that many players on these forums give, and figure that we--as a group--are proficient enough to figure out the best answers to these kinds of questions, questions many of which probably didn't even occur to them during their design process. And I think we, as a group, are doing a pretty good job at it.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by flogae

Smash62bill wrote:

flogae wrote:

So I really think that should be narrowd down a bit further. Maybe the Designer or someone close to him can help...

Unfortunately that boat has long since sailed: the designer, by all accounts, hasn't answered questions about MKBG in some years. (And I don't blame him: as I understand it he wasn't involved in the development of the last two expansions, so he would likely not wish to give answers that could lead to additional unanticipated problems.)

Which, IMO, still leaves us in an okay position: as I've stated elsewhere, we players of MKBG have plenty of hours of experience with this game to answer these types of questions, if we can come to a consensus.

And, the fact that this question really hasn't arisen in discussion often, suggests it's a rarely arising situation. There seems to be agreement that Who Needs Magic is referring to all of the dice in the Source. The only question now is whether you can do things with/to those dice that doesn't constitute "use". And this probably doesn't have a definitive answer: so choose the answer that seems the best fit from your opinion and go with that. (I've already stated above what I think it should be, and why.) Whichever interpretation you decide to hold to, it's not going to ruin the game or vastly upset the balance.

Now there's an interesting question as to why WizKids and company, in the recent while, haven't been providing a lot of answers either, especially with regard to the five new cards that came out with the Ultimate Edition. My suspicion is that, they too, see the expert answers that many players on these forums give, and figure that we--as a group--are proficient enough to figure out the best answers to these kinds of questions, questions many of which probably didn't even occur to the design team during their design process. And I think that we, as a group, are getting to be pretty good at handling them. Sure, they are not "official" answers we come to, but at least in this way we can see the thought that is behind them, and know that it is thorough.

And besides that, it does give us something to talk about. 😀


You are 100% right, of course.
I didn't know these details about how the game has been expanded without the designer... strange.
As for my group, I know how we will answer the question for ourselves: disallow any usage of dice from the source but allow taking dice from the source to produce tokens, using those tokens and putting the unused dice back as in the powered effect of Mana Draw and other cards.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Faso74it

The designer has been consulted on the last two expansions, and I think Paul Grogan can confirm that.

The complaint of the designer was that he had planned all interactions of the cards of the base game. Then when Lost Legion came out he wasn't involved in the development of the expansion, and so it came out with ambiguous wording, and leaving out grey areas like this. He was involved in the design of the expansion as he changed some monster tokens that he considered potentially unbalanced in certain situations.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

Faso74it wrote:

The designer has been consulted on the last two expansions, and I think Paul Grogan can confirm that.

The complaint of the designer was that he had planned all interactions of the cards of the base game. Then when Lost Legion came out he wasn't involved in the development of the expansion, and so it came out with ambiguous wording, and leaving out grey areas like this. He was involved in the design of the expansion as he changed some monster tokens that he considered potentially unbalanced in certain situations.

There you go, people with firsthand information can give more accurate details of the development history than my "by all acounts" and "as I understand it", all of my information being secondhand at best.

Thank you, Nicola.
↧
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Faso74it

My knowledge is secondhand as well, I know for sure that for Shades of Tezla Paul Grogan talked (a lot? enough? a bit?) with Vlaada about the ideas he and Phil had in mind, and some were trashed, because unbalacing or uneffective. Then the actual development was done by Phil and Paul.
The thing about Vlaada resenting the LL expansion was something I had read here.
I also read here that he made a computer implementation of MK (base game) to test/check all interactions of cards.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

A couple germane quotes from elsewhere on BGG:

ricky2002 wrote:

Hero_guy wrote:

Vladaa actually WAS consulted on this expansion [that is, Tezla]. And from what I remember Paul saying, Vladaa felt that this expansion was balanced. The only thing I've read about Vladaa not approving of MKBG is more about getting international versions of the game out. But this expansion absolutely is Vladaa approved.
Absolutely. Vlaada did have direct input. The designs were either vetoed or approved by Vlaada along the way - this expansion took a long time to design and develop and to ratify amongst Paul, Phil and Vlaada.
(20 August 2015)

DaviddesJ wrote:

I don't know how "official" this all is, although perhaps it's the best we've got. I tried pretty hard to get Vlaada to clarify some questions about summoning, to no avail.
(11 April 2016)
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by flogae

Smash62bill wrote:

flogae wrote:

So I really think that should be narrowd down a bit further. Maybe the Designer or someone close to him can help...

Unfortunately that boat has long since sailed: the designer, by some accounts, hasn't answered questions about MKBG in some years. (And I don't blame him: as I understand it he wasn't involved in the development of the last two expansions, so he would likely not wish to give answers that could lead to additional unanticipated problems.)

Which, IMO, still leaves us in an okay position: as I've stated elsewhere, we players of MKBG have plenty of hours of experience with this game to answer these types of questions, if we can come to a consensus.

And, the fact that this question really hasn't arisen in discussion often, suggests it's a rarely arising situation. There seems to be agreement that Who Needs Magic is referring to all of the dice in the Source. The only question now is whether you can do things with/to those dice that doesn't constitute "use". And this probably doesn't have a definitive answer: so choose the answer that seems the best fit from your opinion and go with that. (I've already stated above what I think it should be, and why.) Whichever interpretation you decide to hold to, it's not going to ruin the game or vastly upset the balance.

Now there's an interesting question as to why WizKids and company, in the recent while, haven't been providing a lot of answers either, especially with regard to the five new cards that came out with the Ultimate Edition. My suspicion is that, they too, see the expert answers that many players on these forums give, and figure that we--as a group--are proficient enough to figure out the best answers to these kinds of questions, questions some of which likely didn't even occur to the design team during their design process. And I think that we, as a group, are getting to be pretty good at handling them. Sure, they are not "official" answers we come to, but at least in this way we can see the thought that is behind them, and know that it is thorough.

And besides that, it does give us something to talk about. 😀


You are 100% right, of course.

As for my group, I know how we will answer the question for ourselves: disallow any usage of dice from the source but allow taking dice from the source to produce tokens, using those tokens and putting the unused dice back as in the powered effect of Mana Draw and other cards.
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Mad-Halfling

Smash62bill wrote:

And consider the strong effect of Mana Pull: Take a mana die from the source and set it to any color except gold. Gain two mana tokens of that color. Do not reroll this die when you return it to the Source.

The first sentence isn't "using" a mana die: Yes, it does say "take", but you're only changing the face of the die and then later putting it back--you never use it as mana. The second sentence is merely using the die passively as in the hypothetical case I stated before it: the second sentence is giving you two mana tokens--and those are what you're using. Want an additional argument? Then note that, with this strong effect of Mana Pull, you are prohibited from using the adjusted die as mana.


Is there an official source for the fact that you can't use an adjusted die (the UE card say to select 2 dice) or is this OK in the new version of the card? In theory you could use an existing mana crystal/token to perform this action - or does the "take" count as having taken it from the pool (I suspect this may be the case, but I don't know how powerful some of these cards are and this if this interpretation is OP)
↧
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

Mad-Halfling wrote:

Smash62bill wrote:

And consider the strong effect of Mana Pull: Take a mana die from the source and set it to any color except gold. Gain two mana tokens of that color. Do not reroll this die when you return it to the Source.

The first sentence isn't "using" a mana die: Yes, it does say "take", but you're only changing the face of the die and then later putting it back--you never use it as mana. The second sentence is merely using the die passively as in the hypothetical case I stated before it: the second sentence is giving you two mana tokens--and those are what you're using. Want an additional argument? Then note that, with this strong effect of Mana Pull, you are prohibited from using the adjusted die as mana.

Is there an official source for the fact that you can't use an adjusted die (the UE card say to select 2 dice) or is this OK in the new version of the card? In theory you could use an existing mana crystal/token to perform this action - or does the "take" count as having taken it from the pool (I suspect this may be the case, but I don't know how powerful some of these cards are and this if this interpretation is OP)

I'm not sure if you realize that the above discussion is solely in regard to Tovak's "Who needs magic?" skill: If you use no die from the Source this turn, it gives +3 instead.

(You may realize this: if so, then I'm not understanding your question.)
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Benkyo

"Use" is not a highlighted term in the rules and I do not think it has such a specific meaning. Taking a die from the source and manipulating it for an effect is "using" it in any standard syntax. I'm inclined to agree with the posters upthread that if you want the +3 effect of "Who needs magic?" you must forgo any use of mana dice from the source for the turn.

That said, I see no reason why you couldn't use a mana die on the Mana Steal tactic...
↧

Reply: Mage Knight Board Game:: Rules:: Re: Official Rules FAQ Thread

$
0
0

by Smash62bill

Benkyo wrote:

"Use" is not a highlighted term in the rules and I do not think it has such a specific meaning.

I just did a search on "Source" in the base game rulebook, and every time the rules talk about "using a die from the Source", it is specifically talking about taking a die and using it for mana. So I disagree: I think that's exactly what the rules mean when they say "use a die from the Source".

Although it is not a specifically defined term, it's meaning to me seems clear.
↧
Viewing all 576 articles
Browse latest View live


<script src="https://jsc.adskeeper.com/r/s/rssing.com.1596347.js" async> </script>